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These two topics are currently being discussed on another thread which has gone (for the better, in my opinion) off topic. Unfortunately, this interesting diversion is keeping an otherwise distasteful (again, my opinion) topic, which should really be allowed to disappear, alive and at the top of the forum.

It may be a vain hope, but perhaps we could continue the diversion here?

From my point of view, bar chords were never a 'pose' for photographs, they were quite simply the best and easist (once he technique was mastered) way to play six-string chords. I hated the thumb over the E and A strings method and I felt it severely restricted the left hand. As for that being more comfortable for long gigs, I have to disagree. When we were playing 5-6 hour gigs on the continent, I never had a problem playing bar chords.

As for Strap lengths, for me the guitar slung around the knees really is a pose and I can't understand why a musician would compromise his playing ability by adopting that style.

Controversial? Let's talk about it here!

If one is properly taught from the beginning, then I'm sure that bar chords are a good thing. The trouble is, because chord playing is instinctive (you haven't got time to think about the next chord, your fingers have to form the shape automatically) then un-learning an automatic action is bloomin' difficult! The first chord most people learn is 'C' and to get to 'F' it is a lot more natural to very slightly re-align that shape rather than take all the fingers off the strings, stretch out the forefinger and then make a new shape with the rest. A good teacher will, I'm sure, make their pupil practice this unnatural action until it becomes automatic but if you have no-one to guide you and the world of rock'n'roll beckons and it sounds the same anyway then bar chords become low priority.

With the excellent example of Bruce Welch to follow, I think I will continue to play without using bar chords.

Ray L

Couldnt agree more about the thread!

A couple of years before we moved to France I was hired by the management of a certain well known boy band who were about to promote their new single. management wanted two of them to play guitars. Only problem was they couldnt! the easiest and best 'pose' value was to get them used to the shape of a major barre chord and slide it up and down the neck. the end result looked quite professional (but its a good job they were only lip-synching!!).

Mike

I was completely self taught and have never had a guitar lesson in my life. My only 'tutor' was a book of chords and I played bar chord from the very beginning. However, I do agree about how hard it is to break out of old bad habits and I am still lumbered with a few of those to this day!

Since we in the tropics live so far away, the 2004 Final Tour DVD provided us the first opportunity to watch the Shadows play at length. Among other things, we noted that Bruce hardly used barre shapes. Left to ourselves, we surmised that this must be because he didn't want his chords to intrude into "bass" territory, so that bass, rhythm, and lead had their own exclusive octave or note ranges, all for the "cleanness" of the total mix.

Oh well.

Andy
Manila

Hi Andy,
I think you're right, and also in later years when playing with keyboards in the band it helps keep his guitar sound more distinct (although I'm not sure if that's intentional, because I think he tended to play electric rhythm that way).
I always love the big open chords that he would often use on acoustic in earlier recordings, but I think that sometimes they don't work so well on electric in a live situation - though I sense that even on those open chords he doesn't pronounce the bass strings so much (and the other thing with recordings is that we've learnt recently about adding a second rhythm....)
Chas.

Agreed 100%, Chas.

Bruce's live playing on an electric guitar is often quite different to what he played on the record, using an acoustic model.

The record of Apache, for instance, is full of open and lower-end-of-the-fretbard chords, most of them using six strings, whilst on stage, Bruce tends to use restricted range, four-string chords.

Look at the left hand on his (admittedly mimed) playing here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdDUfFBPi24

JN

The use of barre chords in a band with a bass player is risky, because the bass player simply could be playing a totally different note to the low note of the barre chord. I discovered this years ago, as I used to play in a 5-piece band in Birmingham that didn't have a bass player, although the keyboard player used bass pedals, which just don't give the same drive or lift as a bass player. Consequently, I used full barre chords to 'thicken' up the group sound.
When I subsequently joined 'Pastiche', a 4-piece band in the Midlands, when I still persisted in using barre chords, the bassist tore me off a strip as he felt my chords were clashing with his bass riffs. He was of course, totally right, and I gradually began doing a 'Bruce' and playing the upper part of the chord leaving the bass player to put down the foundations!!
I once had the pleasure of a 'close-up' masterclass in Bruce's chord style at one of my South Wales Shads Club do's, when he was running through 'Chatanooga Choo-Choo' prior to going on stage- his use of the G major with the third 'dampened' was amazing!

Maurice
Lord Flingel of .....etc. etc.

JimN wrote:Agreed 100%, Chas.

Bruce's live playing on an electric guitar is often quite different to what he played on the record, using an acoustic model.

The record of Apache, for instance, is full of open and lower-end-of-the-fretbard chords, most of them using six strings, whilst on stage, Bruce tends to use restricted range, four-string chords.

Look at the left hand on his (admittedly mimed) playing here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdDUfFBPi24

JN

Yes, I've noticed that. In the middle eight of The Savage, Bruce uses the F7 shape (the low C7 shape moved up to the sixth fret) and of course he has to avoid the clashing top and bottom E strings, i.e. he plays the middle four strings only.

Martin.

Er, isnt that how everybody should play it?

Mike