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On the french Shadows' forum, we are having a discussion about which amps were used when playing at the Johannesburg Colosseum in 1961 when they were recorded live.

In Mike Read's book "The Story of The Shadows" Bruce Welch is quoted saying :
"We were promised Vox amps for the tour but we ended up being given Gibson amps which of course had to be used for the live recording as well. This was the only time that Vox amplifiers weren't used on our recordings."

But it is also believed that they came with their own Vox amps. Has anyone precise informations on this subject ? pics would be welcomed.

Didier

Didier wrote:On the french Shadows' forum, we are having a discussion about which amps were used when playing at the Johannesburg Colosseum in 1961 when they were recorded live.

In Mike Read's book "The Story of The Shadows" Bruce Welch is quoted saying :
"We were promised Vox amps for the tour but we ended up being given Gibson amps which of course had to be used for the live recording as well. This was the only time that Vox amplifiers weren't used on our recordings."

But it is also believed that they came with their own Vox amps. Has anyone precise informations on this subject ? pics would be welcomed.

Didier

If they were "promised" Vox amplifiers, it seems unlikely that the group took their own with them as well. Today, it is common practice for USA players visiting the UK to contract the hire of easily-available and known-quantity indsutry standard amplifiers, especially the Fender Twin Reverb and Deluxe Reverb. This is probably the same sort of arrangement which was made in 1961.

Bruce's statement about the recording, though, is only an approximation. Selmer guitar amplifiers had been used for the first few Drifters / Shadows recordings. Obvious tracks which use tremolo sounds never available on Vox amplifiers include Driftin' and Willie And The Hand Jive, both recorded in 1959. And of course, Jet used a Leak amplifier in the studio (possibly the one used later by Paul McCartney).

JimN wrote:

Didier wrote:On the french Shadows' forum, we are having a discussion about which amps were used when playing at the Johannesburg Colosseum in 1961 when they were recorded live.

In Mike Read's book "The Story of The Shadows" Bruce Welch is quoted saying :
"We were promised Vox amps for the tour but we ended up being given Gibson amps which of course had to be used for the live recording as well. This was the only time that Vox amplifiers weren't used on our recordings."

But it is also believed that they came with their own Vox amps. Has anyone precise informations on this subject ? pics would be welcomed.

Didier

If they were "promised" Vox amplifiers, it seems unlikely that the group took their own with them as well. Today, it is common practice for USA players visiting the UK to contract the hire of easily-available and known-quantity indsutry standard amplifiers, especially the Fender Twin Reverb and Deluxe Reverb. This is probably the same sort of arrangement which was made in 1961.

Bruce's statement about the recording, though, is only an approximation. Selmer guitar amplifiers had been used for the first few Drifters / Shadows recordings. Obvious tracks which use tremolo sounds never available on Vox amplifiers include Driftin' and Willie And The Hand Jive, both recorded in 1959. And of course, Jet used a Leak amplifier in the studio (possibly the one used later by Paul McCartney).

Didn't early Vox AC15's and AC30's include tremolo/vibrato??

http://www.voxshowroom.com/uk/amp/ac15_1959.html

It's possible that the Gibson amps supplied for the South African tour might have been the large 60w 2x12 combos which were pretty much Gibson's top amps at that time.


https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=i&rct= ... 6905881182

My first amp was one of these- but it was the Maestro badged version which was designed for accordian, guitar and bass.

cockroach wrote:[Didn't early Vox AC15's and AC30's include tremolo/vibrato??

http://www.voxshowroom.com/uk/amp/ac15_1959.html

It's possible that the Gibson amps supplied for the South African tour might have been the large 60w 2x12 combos which were pretty much Gibson's top amps at that time.

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=i&rct= ... 6905881182

My first amp was one of these- but it was the Maestro badged version which was designed for accordian, guitar and bass.

The tremolo circuit on the Selmer amp used by Hank (a Stadium) was very similar to the one used by Fender, ie, continuously variable speed and depth, and not producing the same effect as the Vox amps, which had a sound of their own (as best exemplified by Hank's sound on Blue Turns To Grey).

Driftin' and ...Hand Jive have that American trem sound, closer to the way Bo Diddley used it.

You may be thinking of the Gibson Atlas or one of the other larger piggyback amps of the early sixties. It could be a little early for those. I was thinking more of the GA40 (the Les Paul models) which were more like the tweed version of the Fender Deluxe or Tremolux, which were in use by The Beatles at the same time.

JimN wrote:

cockroach wrote:[Didn't early Vox AC15's and AC30's include tremolo/vibrato??

http://www.voxshowroom.com/uk/amp/ac15_1959.html

It's possible that the Gibson amps supplied for the South African tour might have been the large 60w 2x12 combos which were pretty much Gibson's top amps at that time.

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=i&rct= ... 6905881182

My first amp was one of these- but it was the Maestro badged version which was designed for accordian, guitar and bass.

The tremolo circuit on the Selmer amp used by Hank (a Stadium) was very similar to the one used by Fender, ie, continuously variable speed and depth, and not producing the same effect as the Vox amps, which had a sound of their own (as best exemplified by Hank's sound on Blue Turns To Grey).

Driftin' and ...Hand Jive have that American trem sound, closer to the way Bo Diddley used it.

You may be thinking of the Gibson Atlas or one of the other larger piggyback amps of the early sixties. It could be a little early for those. I was thinking more of the GA40 (the Les Paul models) which were more like the tweed version of the Fender Deluxe or Tremolux, which were in use by The Beatles at the same time.

The amps I mentioned as being possibly those supplied to the Shads were 1959/60 model Gibsons...the Atlas etc was later than 1961- I also once had a c.1963 Gibson Mariner which was from the same amp series which used model names derived from contemporary US space rockets..

I can't really comment about tremolo/vibrato circuits as I'm not an expert, and as I've never owned a Vox, Selmer or Fender amp, but I do know a little bit about Gibson amps!

It is a pity that there doesn't seem to be any photographic record of the concert that has surfaced. Without it there will always be speculation, Bruce's comment notwithstanding.

Paul.

Vibrato and Tremolo
Vibrato is a frequency modulation of the signal - the note goes up and down in pitch (the effect you get with the mis-named 'tremolo' arm on a guitar).
Tremolo is an amplitude modulation - the note goes up and down in volume - the Tremolo effect you get on the Selmer and Gibson amplifiers mentioned above. Both the Gibson 'Mercury Medalist' (2x 6L6 in the output stage, about 25 watts) and the 'Titan Medalist' (4 x 6L6, about 50-60 watts, the same as a Fender Twin-Reverb) used a Light Dependent Resistor for the tremolo effect and needed one 12AU7 (ECC82) for the circuit.

By contrast, the Vox AC30 Vib/Trem circuit was a much more complicated affair. They really tried to apply both vibrato and tremolo and the result was indeed a bit of both, but fairly subtle. They used three 12AX7/ECC83 double triode valves and a lot of resistor/capacitor ladders to get the shifts needed (the area outlined in blue)

Was it worth it? It has to be said that it wasn't used a lot. Compared to the 'Bright' input it lacked 'oomph' and those extra valves and their circuitry all added to the weight of the AC30.
Ray

fenderplucker wrote:It is a pity that there doesn't seem to be any photographic record of the concert that has surfaced. Without it there will always be speculation, Bruce's comment notwithstanding.

Paul.

I wonder if there are Shadows fans in South Africa who may have attended any of their shows back then or have photos etc from the tour?...I also wonder if there is a local Shads club or website?

JimN wrote:And of course, Jet used a Leak amplifier in the studio (possibly the one used later by Paul McCartney)

In Mike Read's book, Jet's big speaker box built by Pepe Rush was said to have been powered by a 30 watt amp..whether it was a Leak is not stated, but it might be likely that Jet owned the rig - speaker and amp head (or it was bought by the Shads management for him to upgrade from his small Selmer).

From what I've read McCartney used a Tannoy speaker and amp unit both owned by EMI at Abbey Road, which was about 2-3 years later, and probably not Jet's gear.

This interview with Pepe Rush is worth reading. He touches on the Jet question...
http://musical-den.blogspot.com/2015/02/im-not-italian-interview-with-pepe-rush.html