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GoldenStreet wrote:

cockroach wrote:

GoldenStreet wrote:The pioneer of rock acoustic rhythm playing!

Bill

Don't forget the Everly Brothers and Eddie Cochran, old chap!

British!

You didn't specify that, so I had to say it!

Seriously folks...I'll be interested to read the article, hope it's written by someone who knows what they are talking about though..

I could probably write a bit of a treatise meself...I'm not much good on the intricacies of Hank's sound and echo unit/vibrato arm details etc but I'm a Bruce fan and have always watched and listened carefully to his work (Although I can and do play lead on a number of Shads tunes, I've 'been' Bruce in a few Shads tribute bands)..in that regard, one thing that I did do was check every Shads number we were going to play with the records to ascertain which numbers Bruce played on acoustic and which ones where he used an electric guitar, then I used both types of guitar at the show.

I still chuckle at some of the things (mainly older) people said whenever the Shads appeared on TV (such as "Sunday Night at the London Palladium) in the early days. It went something like......

"The one with the glasses is the main one isn't he? The one at the other side's only strumming.....and the one in the middle only has four strings to play....and anyone can bash a set of drums"!

That phrase "only strumming" sticks in my mind to this day. So many people believed guitarists played rhythm only because they weren't good enough to play lead. We know better, don't we. In my own case, on reflection, I think I probably gravitated towards lead because I didn't have the sense of timing or stamina to play rhythm!

Graham

GrahamH wrote:I still chuckle at some of the things (mainly older) people said whenever the Shads appeared on TV (such as "Sunday Night at the London Palladium) in the early days. It went something like......

"The one with the glasses is the main one isn't he? The one at the other side's only strumming.....and the one in the middle only has four strings to play....and anyone can bash a set of drums"!

That phrase "only strumming" sticks in my mind to this day. So many people believed guitarists played rhythm only because they weren't good enough to play lead. We know better, don't we. In my own case, on reflection, I think I probably gravitated towards lead because I didn't have the sense of timing or stamina to play rhythm!

Graham

Yes, yes, playing rhythm is much harder than playing lead- you have to learn loads of chords for a start... There are quite a few chord inversions I just cannot manage to finger and often have to compromise. I think guitar playing is one of the hardest instruments, next to violin/cello. You have six strings all different weights and sounding 'different', often with slightly varying volume and a gradually narrowing relationship between the frets as you go up the neck.

Tigerdaisy wrote: ... I think guitar playing is one of the hardest instruments, next to violin/cello. You have six strings all different weights and sounding 'different', often with slightly varying volume and a gradually narrowing relationship between the frets as you go up the neck.

Violin/viola/cello might have only four strings but they're still all different and the frets still get closer together as you go up - but you can't see 'em!!

I would really like to read or hear an in depth interview with Bruce about his guitar techniques and how he developed his skill over the years, his gear and how he used it etc..

However, I recall that he was asked about this in one interview and when asked about how he got his sound etc (such as making a Strat sound like an acoustic etc) he just shook his head, smiled and said 'Trade secrets!'...! He did mumble something about using a little chorus on the guitar sound, but that was it!

So unlike Hank, who has always seemed to have been open and comfortable talking about his playing, gear etc, as far as Bruce goes, we can only speculate and make informed guesses! Although I read Bruce's book years ago, he didn't really go into aspects of his playing in detail, as I recall..

Anyway, I look forward to reading the Guitar Techniques mag article when I can access it...but I'm still hoping that someone convinces him to speak up and interviews Bruce in his own right as a player, not the usual Shads related interview where most of the emphasis is on Hank (not that he doesn't deserve such attention!) and the same old historic stories are repeated again (the 'first Strat', the AC30 and echo box story etc)..

Yes, there are TWO trade secrets, 1- you practice a lot and 2- you use an acoustic guitar... Using subtle chorus thickens up the sound and adds many musical overtones you wouldn't normally get with a plain electric sound.

Yes- Bruce's sound includes his fantastically clean accurate fingering achieved by years of practice..never a fluffed note in a chord!

I found years ago that using the Strat middle pickup, with the guitar tone control full on and the guitar master volume backed off a little, came pretty close to Bruce's on-stage live sound too..heavier gauge strings also gave a solid clean rhythm sound..

He did say once that when he used his electric guitar on early records that it always sounded muted and muffled ('like an underground train going by' in his own words! ) so he borrowed and tried Cliff's big Gibson J200 acoustic and got that great clean clear rhythm sound on Apache and many other subsequent tracks..he also changed to a Strat when they got the rosewood fingerboard models and stayed with one until the Burns era and went back to a Strat subsequently until now...obviously he preferred the Strat to his earlier guitars- like the Jazzmaster, the Gretsch 6120 and the Telecaster...and certainly more than the Grimshaw or the Vega he used early on..

cockroach wrote:He did say once that when he used his electric guitar on early records that it always sounded muted and muffled ('like an underground train going by' in his own words! ) so he borrowed and tried Cliff's big Gibson J200 acoustic and got that great clean clear rhythm sound on Apache and many other subsequent tracks..he also changed to a Strat when they got the rosewood fingerboard models and stayed with one until the Burns era and went back to a Strat subsequently until now...obviously he preferred the Strat to his earlier guitars- like the Jazzmaster, the Gretsch 6120 and the Telecaster...and certainly more than the Grimshaw or the Vega he used early on..

Bruce's rhythm guitar sound on for instance the very first album by Cliff, is quite muted and muffled as also on "Midnight", which was full of technical difficulties, but despite that, it is one of my all time favourite B-sides.

I took a friend to his first Shadows concert many years ago. He really enjoyed it and agreed what a great band they were! he then added "mind you that bloke on the end doesn't do much!" (Bruce) Mind you my friend was a drummer !

If it's the article with the "analysis" of Apache, then it's very disappointing.

And I thought Bruce was born in Bognor!