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Thanks Dave and Ivo

Dave that's fascinating info - thanks to Dick! Wonder is that the same Martin that McCartney picked up when he arrived at Bruce's place in Portugal..and had 'scrambled eggs' in his head..?

Interesting that this thread has diverted into 'Argentina' territory.

I too am pretty certain that Bruce isn't on 'Argentina' - mainly because someone very close to the Shads told me so. No names, but I have no doubt that he was/is right.

I have heard Kevin Peek's name mentioned in relation to either 'Argentina' or 'Cavatina'. There's also an interview with John Williams in a 1979 issue of Guitar in which he claims that Kevin has worked with the Shads. Too late, sadly, to ask Kevin himself and as it's 40 years ago now, I doubt that anyone will remember for sure.

The much longer version of 'Argentina' (the one that actually sounds more like the version they played live!) surely does have Bruce on it.

By the way, I remember as if it was yesterday, asking my dad to buy 'Cavatina' for me on his trip into town one Saturday morning in 1979. Still have it, in the yellow pic sleeve. !979 was a great year.

bgohara wrote:Thanks Dave and Ivo

Dave that's fascinating info - thanks to Dick! Wonder is that the same Martin that McCartney picked up when he arrived at Bruce's place in Portugal..and had 'scrambled eggs' in his head..?

I don’t know much about Bruce’s guitar collection, so if he only has one Martin it could well be the one. That said, Dick called it the ‘little’ Martin, meaning it could have been an OM model rather than his D-28 which is a Dreadnought, so he may have several.

drakula63 wrote:Interesting that this thread has diverted into 'Argentina' territory.

I too am pretty certain that Bruce isn't on 'Argentina' - mainly because someone very close to the Shads told me so. No names, but I have no doubt that he was/is right.

I have heard Kevin Peek's name mentioned in relation to either 'Argentina' or 'Cavatina'. There's also an interview with John Williams in a 1979 issue of Guitar in which he claims that Kevin has worked with the Shads. Too late, sadly, to ask Kevin himself and as it's 40 years ago now, I doubt that anyone will remember for sure.

The much longer version of 'Argentina' (the one that actually sounds more like the version they played live!) surely does have Bruce on it.

By the way, I remember as if it was yesterday, asking my dad to buy 'Cavatina' for me on his trip into town one Saturday morning in 1979. Still have it, in the yellow pic sleeve. !979 was a great year.

I also remember I read somewhere, that Bruce quit one of the recording sessions early, because he wanted to watch a football match or something and that another guitarist completed the session. I don't know if that was for "Don't Cry For Me Argentina" or "Theme From The Deer Hunter (Cavatina)". Could it also be that Clive Hicks was asked to play acoustic rhythm guitar on "Don't Cry For Me Argentina", because Hank and Bruce were on holiday and Brian Bennett was in the UK and they had to complete the edited version in time for the single release?

Why the speculation still ?
It’s been well documented for as long as I can remember that Bruce was missing when Brian Bennett had to finish Argentina as the others were on holiday or missing for whatever reason and the guitar was played by a session player. The reason being that EMI were pushing for release and BB was the only person around to sort it out. Brian admits it was a rush job.
Bruce played Cavatina sat next to Dick in one of the engineers chairs at Honeyhill on his ‘little’ Martin. Dick recorded the whole thing so I guess he should know.

The story I heard - and, again, this came from a source very close to the Shads - was that Bruce didn't want to record 'Argentina' and made this very clear by launching his guitar across the studio and walking out! Fair enough, we all have our off days and I have witnessed such things myself when playing in bands. Indeed, on one occasion when we were rehearsing a song that I thought was rubbish, I just got off the drum stool, lay down on the floor and said "I'm not playing this."

The thing that really surprises me about 'Argentina' (as I alluded to earlier), is that although they were trying to make it sound like the 'live' version, which it did at first, it ended up sounding far less like the live version once it had been shortened and the electric guitar replaced by the acoustic. I will admit that the acoustic guitar does sound nicer though - warmer. Brian did a great job, however, and it was many, many years before I realised that it wasn't really 'live' at all.

Cavatina was a great follow-up and I think this came about because Bruce saw The Deer Hunter at the cinema and recommended the tune to Brian and Hank. So glad that they made a video for it, with Dave Lawson and George Ford.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUBsQVVfrYo

and TOTP 1979

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERRDkUliStw

Dave your right, why still speculate when folks into the know, gave the facts as is or was....
On lots of forum's peeps still keep "ignoring" the geezers who where present at the time or somebody knows the inner-circle folks and give the facts.
Also a nice one is, when somebody has the object of the thread, hanging on his wall for more then 40 years, the "in house experts" keep still writing...30 years ago I saw this so and so and I can remember .... the owner of the object gets ignored while he or she wants to share the facts...

Dave, that little Martin was Bruce's OM21 so your spot on


Cheers Rob

Nice one Rob, thanks for confirming the guitar, makes total sense.
So that answers the question ‘What sort of guitar did Bruce play on Cavatina’
It was a Martin OM-21

Bruce has long had a Martin 00-18E (factory fitted with one DeArmond model 2000 pickup mounted in a custom cover designed for Martin).

The pickup was used on that 00-18E model (just the one) and two were used on the D-28E (one of those was prominently used by Dec McCluskey of the Bachelors).

I seem to recall reading that Bruce lent the 00-18E to Paul McCartney during a visit to Bruce's villa in Portugal. Paul asked for a guitar because he had an idea for a song (which turned out to be Yesterday).

Does Bruce have a dreadnought Martin (perhaps dating from the MW&F days)? Or an OM, as famously used by Lonnie Donegan? He might well have.

In recent years he used a custom-built Martin style dreadnought made by Mick Johnson.

http://guitars.com/sites/default/files/field_instr_image/AB9215a.jpg

Fascinating discussion.
Dave, just one suggested correction - I think Cavatina would have been recorded at either CTS studios (Wembley) or Abbey Road - I seem to recall CTS at least being mentioned on the String of Hits sleeve notes (and 1978/9 may well pre-date Honeyhill).

Chris - I had no idea that video existed until I saw it over the weekend on youtube. So it was an official video, was it?