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I had a look at the Zoom G1 Four and it looks a decent option but I have the Zoom MS-100 which has all those sounds and more, but not the looper.
I already have Digitech Trio + with a looper as well as the Strymon Volante so I don't need another one really as I don't even bother with those.
The fact is that it will do a decent Shadows echo if you know how to get it, so a good buy at the right money.

Does anyone know if you can use the Zoom G1 Four as an audio interface with the PC at 48KHz through the USB port?

Wondering if it could also be used as an interface for playing live online.

Looking at the operator manual for the G1 Four, it seems that the echo "pedals" can be chained in series one after the other, but surely this would give the wrong echo patterns since the second pedal would add echoes to those already produced by the first, and so on down the chain. This is not the same as using the pedals in parallel and summing the outputs so that you correctly get the original note plus the individual echoes (i.e. not echoes on echoes).

Or have I not read the manual correctly and is there some other way of linking then together to avoid the problem?

Paul.

artyman wrote:Does anyone know if you can use the Zoom G1 Four as an audio interface with the PC at 48KHz through the USB port?

Wondering if it could also be used as an interface for playing live online.

Unfortunately not Ken this is something they have done away with on the newer Zooms among other things like the XLR out etc compared to the older G3 and G5 units

Hi Paul,

Yes, you are right, the effects in the G1 Four and indeed other Zoom pedals do appear to be chained in series. I understand perfectly what you are saying, but they do seem to work ok and sound pretty good to my ears. On mine I use the Tape Echo effects in a chain. Here are the settings I use for Wonderful Land:

Time. Fb. Mix. Tail
106. 25. 38. Off
204. 25. 25. Off
285. 0. 39. Off
360. 75. 66. Off

Right or not they work!

Ian

If it works then that's the acid test and I find the same using my two cheap NUX Tape Core boxes. I just tune them in by ear and they sound great, the first three on pedal one at half the volume of pedal two that has the 360ms 'kick'.

If you use delays in series , with any feedback on delays before the last delay in chain, then as it is a series connection each repeated delay hits the next delay and gets repeated yet again and by the end of the delay chain you end up with a wash !

You can put the delays in parallell and combine the echos together to stop this.

If you only use two echo pedals in series and set 1st to no repeats, then last delay to repeat, the last delay will repeat the first delay unit thus avoiding the problem of repeating the repeats. There should be no need to use repeats on the first delay pedal as repeats are handled by the last delay.

I have tried this on several units for mimicking the Meazzi sounds and the best way I found was to repeat only on last delay else it sounds very odd and certainly not like a Meazzi.

roger bayliss wrote:If you use delays in series , with any feedback on delays before the last delay in chain, then as it is a series connection each repeated delay hits the next delay and gets repeated yet again and by the end of the delay chain you end up with a wash !

You can put the delays in parallell and combine the echos together to stop this.

If you only use two echo pedals in series and set 1st to no repeats, then last delay to repeat, the last delay will repeat the first delay unit thus avoiding the problem of repeating the repeats. There should be no need to use repeats on the first delay pedal as repeats are handled by the last delay.

I have tried this on several units for mimicking the Meazzi sounds and the best way I found was to repeat only on last delay else it sounds very odd and certainly not like a Meazzi.

Agreed Roger and I found it works for me exactly as you described. On the Strymon Volante you can choose which heads from where to take the feedback and when doing so, listening and comparing as you press the buttons, you can hear when it sounds 'right' for what you are trying to achieve.

Hi Roger, Dave, Ian,

That works fine if you have just two pedals with the second only providing the final delay plus feedback. However, pedals like the G1 Four effectively have 4 (or 5) "pedals" in series and this delivers the wrong echo pattern even before any feedback is considered. For example, with 4 heads and delays set for an Echomatic 2 timing (100, 200, 280 and 360 mSec) the output from the first pedal is direct + 100mSec. That goes to the second pedal in the chain and that gives direct + 100 + 200 + 300 (the 300 coming from the 200 mSec delay on the 100 mSec repeat from the first pedal). By the time you get to the output from the 4th pedal you have spurious echoes at 300, 380, 660, 740 and 940 mSec, even before any feedback is applied. However, the other spurious echoes produced coincide with what would have been the first feedback set (assuming feedback from head 4) and so they fit the desired pattern OK, even though their levels will be wrong. So, if little overall feedback is applied to avoid things getting even more messy, the result probably doesn't sound too bad as Dave and Ian have found, but it is still a rather crude approximation.

fenderplucker wrote:Hi Roger, Dave, Ian,

That works fine if you have just two pedals with the second only providing the final delay plus feedback. However, pedals like the G1 Four effectively have 4 (or 5) "pedals" in series and this delivers the wrong echo pattern even before any feedback is considered. For example, with 4 heads and delays set for an Echomatic 2 timing (100, 200, 280 and 360 mSec) the output from the first pedal is direct + 100mSec. That goes to the second pedal in the chain and that gives direct + 100 + 200 + 300 (the 300 coming from the 200 mSec delay on the 100 mSec repeat from the first pedal). By the time you get to the output from the 4th pedal you have spurious echoes at 300, 380, 660, 740 and 940 mSec, even before any feedback is applied. However, the other spurious echoes produced coincide with what would have been the first feedback set (assuming feedback from head 4) and so they fit the desired pattern OK, even though their levels will be wrong. So, if little overall feedback is applied to avoid things getting even more messy, the result probably doesn't sound too bad as Dave and Ian have found, but it is still a rather crude approximation.

That is exactly correct Paul. Have found this applies to other multi effect units. Best practice I found was to use no more than 2 echos if possible, due to thus happening in series delay connections. If you put headphones on it is more obvious too. Dave Robinson's use of two NUX Tape Core Roland sim pedals works if 3 echos on first unit have no feedback and feedback is used on second main echo. The key is only to use feedback on last pedal in series delays for a reasonable acceptable echo sound.