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Agree about the sound - there can be no doubt anyway. But I never liked the notion that The Beatles simply blew them away over night - that was even the premise in the recent documentary.

For me what blew them away was choosing to issue 'Rhythm and Greens' as a mickey-taking A side. Unbelieveably stupid. They had just about held their own up to then and Flingel Bunt had showed them the way, and that Shads buyers were still there in spite of the Mersey boom. And after that it was simple - their choice of singles tracks was poor. The album sales were after all remaining good.

Mike

The Beatles blew everyone away. Get over it.

The Beatles never blew me away, I can honestly say I didn't think much of them until Rubber Soul. I preferred listening to Chet Atkins, The Yarbirds, John Mayall and the like, then later it was Fleetwood Mac & Yes. All the yeah yeah crap didn't do it for me but I grew into them as time elapsed. Probably because at the time there wasn't a decent guitarist in the band to relate to, though George Harrison did become decent.
I also became disappointed with Hank & Co, mainly because of their strange material choices. I did enjoy Hank's first solo album as well as Brian's Change Of Direction, but collectively as a unit they appeared to become disorientated and went all cabaret, largely releasing weak material, certainly no threat to the charts as they had become. Personally I liked Slaughter On Tenth Avenue and Tomorrow's Cancelled, but I think each of those were above the heads of regular Shads fans. Rhythm & Greens was a disaster, you don't do that and it helped their demise. It probably didn't help that they were falling out amongst themselves too. (Brian's words)
I remember touching on the subject when talking to Brian and he indicated they became fed up with each other through familiarity more than anything, then later it was the record companies inane surveys that cemented their fate, having revived it all and had another good run of hits. I had asked who chose those tunes to play that clearly were not good instrumental choices and he told me of the survey the record company did and to fulfil the contract they recorded what as suggested apart from a handful of good tunes that they had written. I actually heard Brian tell most of this today on a YouTube broadcast with him being interviewed by Rick Wakeman.

That Rick Wakeman interview has frequently popped up on my YouTube feed and I'd never watched it, but I did this morning and it's certainly interesting to hear what Brian has to say.

When Dave describes those record company surveys as 'inane' he's spot on. My opinion is that if you're any sort of a musician you should have confidence in your own ability and your own decisions. Once you start allowing the general public to dictate what you do, you're on the slippery slope to oblivion.

It does make you wonder why artists do not have more power sometimes.

The fact that Hank cannot get his gypsy jazz music out there except at his own expense is frankly appalling. So much junk does get out somehow!

Musicians usually will have an assessment of music different from the rest of the world. My cousin, who plays jazz guitar professionally in the US, only begrudgingly accepts that there are good songs beyond the standards. Unfortunately, it is aways the broad population that decides which songs will be successful un the market.

On this island where I live, the British invasion was devastating, to the musical genre that preceded it. By 1964 (which the Shadows and the Ventures began with new Burns and Mosrites - and perhaps a different sound), young people here shifted en masse to the Beatles and company. Instrumental guitar music became old hat and no longer exciting. That I became more true and the disparity greater as music progressed rapidly in the later 1960s and 1970s. That was true for me and, I suspect, elsewhere in the world, including probably the UK.

By the mid-1960s, I went on to college, found new interests, and set aside the Shadows. Young people's tastes are fickle, and a new generation of young teenagers awoke to music very different from the Shadows. That became their music, as the Shadows were ours.

Our bass guitarist, who is very talented, was born in 1960. A doctor, she was playing with an all-female band that won an annual music award here. In 2008, When she joined us to play Shadows music, she had some recognition of one or two Shadows melodies, but the rest were completely unfamiliar to her. a 10-year age gap had consigned instrumental music to oblivion for her and probably most of her generation.

I tried to learn guitar many years, wanting to get "that sound" and I could sort of get the tunes, but not the sound! I have recently returned to guitar music and have realised that I would never have got "that" sound with the tuppence halfpenny equipment that I had at the time (a classical guitar, followed by a Strat copy that was twisted!). I had no "effects" pedals as I didn't know of their existence. I recently bought myself a Korean Burns and in order to keep the music to myself, have bought a headphone amp that can be programmed with effects using my android phone. Imagine my complete surprise, when I clicked on a preset of effects that had a sound that I was familiar with! I could actually make a sound that was somewhere near my idols! (Probably a long way short but not too bad!) Ah! The "joys" of modern technology! A Shad soundalike, straight out of the box (preset No. 5 actually!)

Interesting to revisit all this at arms' length...

Given the state of my left arm/hand post stroke, I haven't attempted to play Shads music for several years. BLUES have sustained me... infinitely easier... and I discovered a blues singing voice which has given me much pleasure. My Howling Wolf renditions are legendary... somewhere!

All that changes today... I've given up playing with the band - two serious heart conditions, an incapacitated left leg and foot mean that moving amps and cabs is forbidden and walking/ standing are difficult. So I'm starting to sell some guitars, and first to go are my Custom Shop R0 Les Paul, '61 reissue SG, and my faded fiesta red dealer select custom shop '63 reissue Strat. It's going to be a real wrench... but there's no sense in all that loot hanging on the wall unused and unplayed...

But I thought back to my early teens, and how desperate I was just to touch such a Strat like that, let alone own one... and I've been lucky to own various Hank Signature Strats and the Oasis 34346... Am I really going to be without one? All those drawings in the back of my geography book...

NO! The Custom Shop '63 goes, but a much more affordable replacement is arriving today, courtesy of Guitar-Guitar... so I'll be shaking the dust from my echo unit and setting up the guitar...

Wish me luck...

Hi David

I'm really sorry to hear of your problems and I do, of course, wish you all the luck in the world. You clearly still have the desire so with that plus persistence and determination I'm sure you'll get there.

Tony

David Martin wrote:Interesting to revisit all this at arms' length...

Given the state of my left arm/hand post stroke, I haven't attempted to play Shads music for several years. BLUES have sustained me... infinitely easier... and I discovered a blues singing voice which has given me much pleasure. My Howling Wolf renditions are legendary... somewhere!

All that changes today... I've given up playing with the band - two serious heart conditions, an incapacitated left leg and foot mean that moving amps and cabs is forbidden and walking/ standing are difficult. So I'm starting to sell some guitars, and first to go are my Custom Shop R0 Les Paul, '61 reissue SG, and my faded fiesta red dealer select custom shop '63 reissue Strat. It's going to be a real wrench... but there's no sense in all that loot hanging on the wall unused and unplayed...

But I thought back to my early teens, and how desperate I was just to touch such a Strat like that, let alone own one... and I've been lucky to own various Hank Signature Strats and the Oasis 34346... Am I really going to be without one? All those drawings in the back of my geography book...

NO! The Custom Shop '63 goes, but a much more affordable replacement is arriving today, courtesy of Guitar-Guitar... so I'll be shaking the dust from my echo unit and setting up the guitar...

Wish me luck...

My right hand shakes due to nerve damage from a head on collision with a tractor and trailer! Lockdown and British winters started to mess with my brain, so my return to strumming was with trepidation! There are ways to cope with "disability" no matter how much you have. I got to the stage of "Use it or lose it", which applied to my body and my brain! Keep up with the good work and never give up, no matter how frustrating! My shouting at the telly has subsided greatly!