Wonderful Land with my Apple Macintiosh echo & Pinnacle Amp

[OLDEREK]

I was shouting because I'm angry , why do you think ?....The trouble is you edit most of your messages changing the words and font colour to make them look ok after the damage has been done, you abuse your position here !....By the amount of emails from members who have read this thread from the start I am not the only one who feels angry about your constant remarks on this web site, it's about time you let others have a oppinion instead of thinking you are right all the time...............

[dave robinson]

Being as we insist on staying off topic, to add to what Paul Rossiter (Fenderplucker) wrote about the differences between EF86 and ECC83 tubes, in Vox amps that I own I can easily hear the difference even though the sounds are similar in certain circumstances.
The EF86 channel delivers the early Apache to the 'Some Are Lonely' tone around December 1961 with no effort. Listening to the records, I sense that the amps were changed around the to the next version of the AC30, without the EF86 circuit, though I could be wrong. Hank's guitar just sounds different to me after December 1961.
The Brilliant channel on the Vox TBX sounds something similar with tone controls set to zero, using the 'cut' as a 'smoother' for the treble, but there's an audible difference and I believe it IS the difference between nearly & perfection.
I really should get back on topic now and thank most of you for having a listen to Wonderful Land and Cosy and confirm what I was thinking.

[alanbakewell]

Well Dave, I'll put it as simply as this. Regardless of who is playing and what kit is being used.

Were I standing in front of my amplifier playing this and achieving this sound I'd be well pleased.

Cheers, Alan.

[Didier]

Thanks Didier , once again a good thread ruined . If you need to brag about all the technical tripe that you reckon you know, please feel free to start your own thread elsewhere ! Also, I personally don't care about what components can and can't do.

I wasn't the one who started to discuss about "components". May be do you think that a thread is "ruined" if someone doesn't completly agree with you ?

I just use my ears and get on with it, I find it works fine for me.

The problem is that ears can easily be fooled. Hearing is highly subjective and aural memory is not completly reliable. The only way the make valuable tests is to make instant tests, alternatively switching from one to the other between the two sounds to be compared. Even better : do this blindly, without the audience knowing which one is playing.
This is a common practice in Hi-Fi tests, much less in musical instruments sound where subjectivity and self-suggestion rule.

I remember at a meeting a few years ago, a blind test of a device intended to give "that sound" was organised. A proper switching system had been installed so that only the "operator" knew when the device was used. We listened alternativly several times to the "A" and "B" sounds, without the audience knowing if the device was used for "A" or "B". At the end, the audience (40 people, most of them being players themselves, and all of them having a long experience of the Shadows' sound) was asked to tell if the device was used for "A" or "B". The answers were about 50/50, and I was among those who were right. But this was probably just luck as there was no really noticeable difference in sound !
The device's owner sold it soon after this test, but there are people (who didn't attend this test) who still think it brings a major improvement. This test clearly showed the importance of self-suggestion...

This was supposed to be about the fabulous echo sound achievable with the Mac and Logic Pro - I just happened to plug it into a Pinnacle and it sounded good, that's what we were discussing and it would have been polite to keep it at that, but as usual we have the nonsense to contend with.

There is no doubt that excellent results can be obtained through audio softwares, as you have demonstrated. But using a Mac is not the only solution, there are other as efficient and less expensive solutions in the Windows PC world.

Didier

[dave robinson]

Didier, when someone shows me a PC that can do what a Mac does without going tits up every verse end, then I'll believe you.
So far I have heard nor seen anything to touch Logic/Main Stage to do what I require. Perhaps backing up your claims with 'product' may help to convince me, but until then I will not be convinced. Have you got a Mac with Logic installed ? Do you understand how it works ? If not, how do you support these claims that PC software can do it as good or whatever ?
Please tell me I'm keen to know.

It isn't about whether or nor people agree with me, I asked for opinion and accept what has been said where it is credible. I back up what I am trying to get across with audible evidence.
I'm afraid that just talking the talk doesn't impress me and that' all you seem to do. Sorry if you find that offensive but I don't think it's unreasonable to ask where your proof is on your claims.
Better things to do, let's move on.

[Didier]

Didier, when someone shows me a PC that can do what a Mac does without going tits up every verse end, then I'll believe you.

I didn't state anything like that. I know that a Mac has better audio processing capabilities than a PC. I only stated that you can also get valuable results with a PC for much less money, although it might be more complicated to set.

It isn't about whether or nor people agree with me, I asked for opinion and accept what has been said where it is credible.

The "blind" listening test I reported is perfectly credible, and demonstrates how subjective hearing is...

[keithmantle]

Well Dave, I'll put it as simply as this. Regardless of who is playing and what kit is being used.

Were I standing in front of my amplifier playing this and achieving this sound I'd be well pleased.

Cheers, Alan.

Hi Friends (lets keep it that way) Alans reply was what this thread was all about, 'The Sound' which i and thousands of others are trying to get near to was there in Daves sound files!!,I'm never going to be as good as a lot of members/moderators but I've learned such a lot in the 4 years I've been playing. Without this site and similar ones I'd be pretty lost. Thank you one and all .

[neilbridges99]

Hello all,just thought i would stick my four peneth in on this one. This a friendly site and we try to help each other any way we can. What we put on the site is our veiw only.This is Daves veiw, he has set a little test for you all to guess how he did it, not who did it first or best and what a good job he did. Dave is very good at this. In this day and age i think its as near as we will ever get and a lot of it is how its played anyway.I dont think he means to upset people its just his way of sayings things, well thats how i see it. He has helped a lot of people and i think he is alowed his opinion. Cheers Neil

[tolo]

Didier, when someone shows me a PC that can do what a Mac does without going tits up every verse end, then I'll believe you.

This is very subjective - and differs with individual experience. There is no right or wrong answer - just opinion (and keeping your system healthy, updated and using the right gear with your DAW host). Take a look at the major DAW forums - PT, Cubase, Sonar, Logic, Nuendo etc...etc... and you will see just as many dissatisfied punters with a Mac as there are with Windows.

For example and illustration - http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=304404

In fact - the argument is becoming less fractured since Windows 7 x64 has been around (as well as the i7 cpu) - a much more stable and actually more flexible O/S in regard to upgrades and the stability thereof than the latest OSX's from Apple. I use ProTools 9.0.3 and have experience with both hardware with frustrations on both... Apple has a penchant for dropping OSX compatibility with subsequent upgrades and will not offer complete support for legacy systems, both soft and hard ware - whereas Windows does and offers support and upgrades for all of their O/S platforms over the years...

For this reason, and the sheer expense - I opted to base my system on Windows 7 x64 and am perfectly happy with it. It is rock solid and I can run big sessions at equally good 24 bit / 96khz sample rate as anything else on the market...

What I have works for me - but it may not work for others. But there is no 'best' anymore - and the gap is pretty much closed when it comes to actual performance, processing and stability.

The question is where will it go?!

Over and out...

Tony.

[dave robinson]

Thanks for that insight Tony, at last someone who knows what he is talking about and can shed some light in what is a very grey area in audio computing.
To date I have had no problems with my Mac system, but I understand where Tony is coming from with the compatibility issues that some are experiencing. I don't see myself needing any more than what I have as it does exactly what I want it to do without question - but I fear I may have said those words before at various points in my career . . . . . . .