Marvin/Legend Adjustment Guide

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Re: Marvin/Legend Adjustment Guide

Postby burnsfan123 » Tue May 01, 2012 9:19 pm

Hi Nigel,
thank you for your advise. When I find proper washers I will lubricate them.
Cheers
Dan
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Re: Marvin/Legend Adjustment Guide

Postby petercreasey » Thu May 03, 2012 9:39 am

Dan ,
If you contact Barry Gibson at Burns he will send you some fibre washers, lubricate them when you put them on ( I use vaseline) and they should be fine

take care
Peter

You don't stop playing when you grow old
You grow old when you stop playing
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Re: Marvin/Legend Adjustment Guide

Postby Keith Bateman » Thu May 03, 2012 10:05 am

A problem I have with my Anniversary Marvin is the vibrato unit not returning to pitch fully after depressing it. I keep it fairly tight to the body allowing a raise of only just over a quarter-tone so I'm sure it's not too loosely adjusted. I've lubricated the springs with very light (electric razor) oil and also ensured the nut is clean and lubricated. This was not a problem when new and the guitar is not that frequently used (I prefer my Strat). Does anyone have a similar problem or have a solution to offer?

Keith
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Re: Marvin/Legend Adjustment Guide

Postby RogerCook » Thu May 03, 2012 1:06 pm

I modified the arm bolt arrangement on my Marvin and the arm now stays where I want it!

Details here:

http://charliehall.proboards.com/index. ... 683&page=1

http://www.4shared.com/photo/SFLD7yIi/B ... m_mod.html

The two nuts locked together in the sketch have now been replaced with a single "low profile" Nyloc

Roger
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Re: Marvin/Legend Adjustment Guide

Postby Bob Withrington » Thu May 03, 2012 2:35 pm

Hi again Dan,

As I hope you can see in the photo below of my Burns Apache, the order of assembly is Nut, Plain Washer (Gold plated), Black Nylon Washer, Tremolo Arm, Black Nylon Washer, Plain Washer (Gold Plated). In my view the long lasting success of this assembly is the use of the Black Nylon Washers. Mixed in with the bass nylon material of the washer is a tiny amount of graphite (hence they are black) which provides for continuous self lubrication of the tremolo arm assembly.

After I showed this modification to Barry Gibson he asked me to put him in touch with the supplier of the Black Nylon Washers, which I really must get around to doing.

I hope this helps.

Cheers,

Bob
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Re: Marvin/Legend Adjustment Guide

Postby burnsfan123 » Thu May 03, 2012 4:58 pm

Hi,
thank you all, you're great!
With your input I should find a proper solution to my problem.

Cheers
Dan
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Re: Marvin/Legend Adjustment Guide

Postby David Martin » Fri May 04, 2012 11:02 am

Keith Bateman wrote:A problem I have with my Anniversary Marvin is the vibrato unit not returning to pitch fully after depressing it. I keep it fairly tight to the body allowing a raise of only just over a quarter-tone so I'm sure it's not too loosely adjusted. I've lubricated the springs with very light (electric razor) oil and also ensured the nut is clean and lubricated. This was not a problem when new and the guitar is not that frequently used (I prefer my Strat). Does anyone have a similar problem or have a solution to offer?

Keith


Hi Keith...

Unlike the Strat, the Burns trem pivots on a knife edge. It's worth checking that the plate with the point, and the plate with the receptacle for it are exactly aligned, and, if not slack everything off and "oitch" it into alignment. Are your springs too tight? Maybe better to have more up bend then adjust the arm height using the allan nut .... And finally, you could introduce a little of that razor oil (I use sewing machine oil on Strats but have never had to on Burns) into the knife edge pivot...
David M
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Re: Marvin/Legend Adjustment Guide

Postby JimN » Fri May 04, 2012 12:20 pm

David Martin wrote:
Keith Bateman wrote:A problem I have with my Anniversary Marvin is the vibrato unit not returning to pitch fully after depressing it. I keep it fairly tight to the body allowing a raise of only just over a quarter-tone so I'm sure it's not too loosely adjusted. I've lubricated the springs with very light (electric razor) oil and also ensured the nut is clean and lubricated. This was not a problem when new and the guitar is not that frequently used (I prefer my Strat). Does anyone have a similar problem or have a solution to offer?
Keith


Hi Keith...
Unlike the Strat, the Burns trem pivots on a knife edge. It's worth checking that the plate with the point, and the plate with the receptacle for it are exactly aligned, and, if not slack everything off and "oitch" it into alignment. Are your springs too tight? Maybe better to have more up bend then adjust the arm height using the allan nut .... And finally, you could introduce a little of that razor oil (I use sewing machine oil on Strats but have never had to on Burns) into the knife edge pivot...


Amen to all that.

In the rare event of tuning instability with a real Marvin or Legend, it's best to remove the strings, take off the guard rails, take the springs out one by one and remove the unit completely from the guitar. Clean out the V-section on the pivot bar (it might be necessary to unscrew this from the guitar in order to accomplish that) and make sure that the knife edge in the leading edge of the trem plate is clean and properly shaped. It doesn't need to be razor-sharp, but it must come to a clean point in a straight line right across the width. It must not have a flat edge to the knife-point. That can cause the trem to come to rest in three different positions, with obvious tuning implications. If your instrument is still within warranty, consider applying to have it done by Burns. If it's not, get a Burns-familiar luthier to clean up the knife edge. If you are confident of the job, do it yourself.

The above will almost certainly cure any tuning instability, though it will obviously work best with strings which exert enough tension (ie, not 9s or 10s, and preferably not 11s). The guitar and mechanism were designed for medium gauge strings. None of the gauges I've just mentioned are medium.

One more potential source of trouble is the lateral position of the trem plate. On original UK Marvins (and Legends), it is actually possible to move the trem plate side to side relative to the knife edge (particularly so with unsuitably light strings). If it moves too far to the treble side of the guitar, the boss which attaches the trem arm to the plate has been known to foul the sides of the body recess in which it sits. So make sure the plate and pivot line up perfectly laterally. Some more modern examples of the guitar have a system whereby the knife edge is narrower than the whole width of the pivot bar, and this prevents the trem plate from moving too far sideways (though it can also obviously lead to yet another variety of tuning problem if the trem plate is grinding against the inside of the ends of the V-section.

Phew!

JN
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Re: Marvin/Legend Adjustment Guide

Postby David Martin » Sat May 05, 2012 1:00 pm

Indeed, Jim... but I've used 10s on my modern Marvin ever since 2004 with no probs... so it's summat else!
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Re: Marvin/Legend Adjustment Guide

Postby Keith Bateman » Tue May 08, 2012 10:28 am

JimN wrote:
David Martin wrote:
Keith Bateman wrote:A problem I have with my Anniversary Marvin is the vibrato unit not returning to pitch fully after depressing it. I keep it fairly tight to the body allowing a raise of only just over a quarter-tone so I'm sure it's not too loosely adjusted. I've lubricated the springs with very light (electric razor) oil and also ensured the nut is clean and lubricated. This was not a problem when new and the guitar is not that frequently used (I prefer my Strat). Does anyone have a similar problem or have a solution to offer?
Keith


Hi Keith...
Unlike the Strat, the Burns trem pivots on a knife edge. It's worth checking that the plate with the point, and the plate with the receptacle for it are exactly aligned, and, if not slack everything off and "oitch" it into alignment. Are your springs too tight? Maybe better to have more up bend then adjust the arm height using the allan nut .... And finally, you could introduce a little of that razor oil (I use sewing machine oil on Strats but have never had to on Burns) into the knife edge pivot...


Amen to all that.

In the rare event of tuning instability with a real Marvin or Legend, it's best to remove the strings, take off the guard rails, take the springs out one by one and remove the unit completely from the guitar. Clean out the V-section on the pivot bar (it might be necessary to unscrew this from the guitar in order to accomplish that) and make sure that the knife edge in the leading edge of the trem plate is clean and properly shaped. It doesn't need to be razor-sharp, but it must come to a clean point in a straight line right across the width. It must not have a flat edge to the knife-point. That can cause the trem to come to rest in three different positions, with obvious tuning implications. If your instrument is still within warranty, consider applying to have it done by Burns. If it's not, get a Burns-familiar luthier to clean up the knife edge. If you are confident of the job, do it yourself.

The above will almost certainly cure any tuning instability, though it will obviously work best with strings which exert enough tension (ie, not 9s or 10s, and preferably not 11s). The guitar and mechanism were designed for medium gauge strings. None of the gauges I've just mentioned are medium.

One more potential source of trouble is the lateral position of the trem plate. On original UK Marvins (and Legends), it is actually possible to move the trem plate side to side relative to the knife edge (particularly so with unsuitably light strings). If it moves too far to the treble side of the guitar, the boss which attaches the trem arm to the plate has been known to foul the sides of the body recess in which it sits. So make sure the plate and pivot line up perfectly laterally. Some more modern examples of the guitar have a system whereby the knife edge is narrower than the whole width of the pivot bar, and this prevents the trem plate from moving too far sideways (though it can also obviously lead to yet another variety of tuning problem if the trem plate is grinding against the inside of the ends of the V-section.

Phew!

JN


Further to my last post re a luthier (now deleted) I followed Jim's instructions, took the bull (or in the case of Burns maybe Bison!) by the horns and took it all apart. There was some dirt in the pivot block and I'm sure the whole thing benefited from a clean up. One thing that came to light whilst restringing was that the nut was not cut cleanly at the second string making it very tight and no doubt contributing to the initial problem. So, after fixing that and carefully putting it back together with a looser setting of the springs as suggested by David, all is now well and I feel confident about playing it again.

Grateful thanks to Jim and David for the benefit of their experience and knowledge :)

Keith
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