APACHE eTap2hw - HEAVY STRINGS

[dave robinson]

I would be happy if you put together a really good recording with an amp, etc., as I suggested before in all sincerity. If it illustrates the eTap is superior in matching the tone and echoes of the Meazzi, that would be exciting news for me, and I might build or buy one.



Andy

One day when it suits me, I may do that, but like I said I have had them all here and the eTap2hw is the closest.
If - just if the TVS is closer at the end of it all you need to ask yourself, with your standard of playing is it £2,700 better sounding? Even in the hands of Hank on the Reunion tour there was little evidence of that possibility. Like I said before, it can be achieved with a lot of EQ tweaking and patience, but that could apply to any echo machine given the same treatment.
Good luck.

[Twang46]

Hi Andy

Of course you are correct in your "findings" that the OVERALL sound of the clips as posted by TVS shows the TVS to be closest to the recorded sound in THAT PARTICULAR INSTANCE.

Daves recording was guitar-etap-recorder The TVS recording was through several stages of processing apart from the echo emulator as well as an extensively modified original recording used as a bt.

The comparisons are about the echo's & the tone produced by them & until we can see a properly controlled comparison, these sound clip postings show nothing conclusive & this debate will rumble on.

I know that the Etap is capable of reproducing the vintage echo sound at least as well as the TVS if not better, the question is will there ever be a properly conducted "shoot out" ?

I know that we all know that this will never happen.

Dick.

[roger bayliss]

I am with Dave Robinson on this as in the end it is all the tweaks that finish the sound off from mic placement to EQs etc etc.

I remind folks of the version of Wonderful Land that Robbie Janusara posted sometime back. He used a Vox Tonelab with a treble booster effect on the amp model ! The echo was a modified Vox Long Tom and it was a really close match on the sound of the original. So this tells us there are several ways to get to the final result using your ears and tweaking the final tone.

The TVS team also use all the tools to get there final sound as indicated in their That Sound Videos. For me I have the eTap2HW and I have heard it side my side with a reconned Meazzi and I heard echos that evening that convinced me the eTap2HW had the sound .

I would be happy producing a file that either the TVS team of Robbo has done as both are of a high quality and close enough.

The difference of course is the price of both units which rules out the TVS for me but that does not stop those with the cash going and getting one as you pays yer money and buys what you want and that is your choice. We are splitting hairs here to be fair.

It is really a progress over the years that we now have echo units of this calibre thanks to the teams involved so buy one that suits your pocket and your ear !

[Gary Allen]

Netiquette is the key to that sound...................without it...............Nobody listens...................

[Spike]

Finally managed to download and listen to the last sample Dave... Wow that is it best I have heard yet for Apache... and therefore proves the etap2HW without question. I did a/b it against the TVS Apache on their site and on this occassion this version wins for me. Not that Gary Taylors version is lacking in anyway but the sound is nearer on this soundfile to my ears. Piet must be happy if he has heard this.

To answer Alan McKillop's comments about this being an eTap thread and not a TVS3 thread, then why do people not have the right to defend the TVS3 when it is challenged by comments as quoted above.

If people want to compare the etap to the TVS3 then we are happy to compromise as Paul has done in a previous and now blocked thread.

If you guys want to keep it as an Etap thread then dont include us in your discussion and just compare the etap to The Shadows.
Do we not have the right to defend ourselves if you are suggesting to people that the Etap is better or equal to the TVS3?
We will not interfere in an Etap discussion unless we are challenged so please keep it strictly Etap.

My Perth site(home of the TVS) has a section on the Etap where people are promoting it and we are happy to see Piets product get some exposure as it is a great product for the price.
See here http://shadowsperth.proboards.com/index ... hread=4140

and the DIY section: http://shadowsperth.proboards.com/index ... 140&page=2


Cheers
Spike

[fenderplucker]

Hi Dave,

I cannot understand why you feel the need to knock the TVS3 with statements like:

I had the TVS3 and rejected it and was relieved to get my money back as it didn't sound anything special out of the box.

just to try to prove the point that the eTap is a good sounding unit, especially since you have previously claimed that the TVS3 was the best and had a special magic when you did a comparison with many other echo units ( I reproduced that claim in an earlier thread just before someone on this site locked it and then had it removed, so I won't do it again here) and also went on to say:

without doubt the best early Shads sound I have ever used in relation to its use in live performance.

As Spike said, we only joined this discussion when some unsubstantiated comparisons were made with the TVS and then only offered an objective comparison. The reality is that, until proved otherwise with some objective evidence, the TVS3 remains the closest to the original Meazzi sound. Many may prefer the sound of the eTap, but that, as I have also said before, is an entirely different discussion.

I would also like to suggest that such discussions/comparisons are probably unfair to the eTap and also Piet who has put in an enormous amount of effort in making it available as an inexpensive option.

Paul.

[abstamaria]

Thanks, Dick. Yes, it became a comparison between the two recordings, not just the echoes. To my ears and those I polled, Gary's was deemed superior overall in terms of being closer to original recording. I do not think anyone has said otherwise, but some have explained thatvthe result may be influenced by tone and other factors. I agree with that and that TVS had the advantage in that they used the correct amp, were careful with microphone placement, etc., but I suppose if one wants to improve over their recording one should do the same. Otherwise it would be like bringing a knife to a gunfight.

But I did try to analyze the echoes, with one specific example, and there the eTap (or at least the way it was set) seemed to my ears different from the original. I do wish we would focus on that particular point and agree or disagree and explain where I may have been mistaken. Then the discussions would be productive.

Thanks for the reminder, Gary; I do try to be respectful of other views and present things objectively. Unfortunately, in a comparison, even as against only the original recording, a conclusion is inevitable. I have only noted mine and the others I asked, and of course others may do the same. But I do hope we can argue about this good naturedky as friends.

Best regards,

Andy
Hong Kong

[AlanMcKillop]

Now we are being told that members are not hearing things properly (except Andy of course).

[Mike Honey]

I do wish this comparison thing would stop! It's only relevant in a recording/internet situation. When I play live or hear another playing live I have nothing to compare it with except my memory of the original! If it sounds like i remember it then thats great, if it doesnt sound right then I'm sure it will be because the etap or the TVS or any other decent echo unit isnt being used! I get paid for my shadows shows and all i use is a Behringer pedal!! but I wouldnt dream of using it to record with!!

mike

[Tab]

The comparison here is, not between Etap and TVS, but how close the Etap machine can get to the original sound - with and without heavy strings.

If one is going to demonstrate a piece of equipment to show this, it is important that the number is played authentically to the original (yes, even with the subtle nuances of the trem use, Ecca) Otherwise the piece of equipment will be sold short as the differences will be attributed to the equipment as Andy found in his road test.

When playing live at a gig or club these playing variations are neither here nor there which is why there have been 'no complaints', but it is important in a demonstration.