APACHE eTap2hw - HEAVY STRINGS

[dave robinson]

Hi Dave,

I cannot understand why you feel the need to knock the TVS3 with statements like:

I had the TVS3 and rejected it and was relieved to get my money back as it didn't sound anything special out of the box.

just to try to prove the point that the eTap is a good sounding unit, especially since you have previously claimed that the TVS3 was the best and had a special magic when you did a comparison with many other echo units ( I reproduced that claim in an earlier thread just before someone on this site locked it and then had it removed, so I won't do it again here) and also went on to say:

without doubt the best early Shads sound I have ever used in relation to its use in live performance.

As Spike said, we only joined this discussion when some unsubstantiated comparisons were made with the TVS and then only offered an objective comparison. The reality is that, until proved otherwise with some objective evidence, the TVS3 remains the closest to the original Meazzi sound. Many may prefer the sound of the eTap, but that, as I have also said before, is an entirely different discussion.

I would also like to suggest that such discussions/comparisons are probably unfair to the eTap and also Piet who has put in an enormous amount of effort in making it available as an inexpensive option.

Paul.

Paul, I do apologise for the way that statement sounds, I should have described what I was trying to say in a lot more detail but didn't wish to write yet another essay on the subject. My 'out of the box' statement referred to what folks were saying at the time I had the TVS3' that not everyone that I played it to was convinced that the sound was worth the cost. The TVS3 did however give the desired results when a bit of work with the settings and EQ was put in, but most folks expect the magic to be there instantly. I achieved some satisfaction and understood the potential of the device, but couldn't justify the outlay for what it was giving me and said as much at the time. That said, there were equally as many excellent compliments about how good it sounded.
Please understand that it isn't my intention for people to insist on comparing products, I just wanted to show the results of the how the eTap2hw can sound straight out of the box - it's other people that keep hi-jacking the threads, to be honest quite annoyingly so.

I have taken the time to do these few demos and I think that most are satisfied with how I have recorded them and can hear the potential in the unit. Can I respectfully suggest we leave it at that for the sake of our friendship, I don''t feel the need to keep this line of discussion as it cannot possibly reach a satisfactory conclusion and will only end up dividing the community. As Roger Baylis suggested 'You pays your money and makes your choice'.

Kind regards

[Twang46]

Oh oh............ do I hear the footsteps of the moderator approaching, red pencil in hand ?

I just want to read about (& listen to) the music & how people play it & the gear they use to make it sound the way that it does

Dick.

[dave robinson]

The comparison here is, not between Etap and TVS, but how close the Etap machine can get to the original sound - with and without heavy strings.

If one is going to demonstrate a piece of equipment to show this, it is important that the number is played authentically to the original (yes, even with the subtle nuances of the trem use, Ecca) Otherwise the piece of equipment will be sold short as the differences will be attributed to the equipment as Andy found in his road test.

When playing live at a gig or club these playing variations are neither here nor there which is why there have been 'no complaints', but it is important in a demonstration.

So are you saying that unless a piece of music is played identical to the original, you have difficulty is assessing whether or not the sound is right ?
To me a sound is a sound and is instantly recognisable as being in the ball park - or not.
The sound of the guitar the last recording of Apache that I made was very close o that of Hank's, which was running along side mine on the machine for quick comparison.

[Gary Allen]

Thanks for the reminder, Gary; I do try to be respectful of other views and present things objectively. Unfortunately, in a comparison, even as against only the original recording, a conclusion is inevitable. I have only noted mine and the others I asked, and of course others may do the same. But I do hope we can argue about this good naturedky as friends.

Best regards,

Andy
Hong Kong

Hi Andy, my comment was not directed at you in any way. regards Gary

[abstamaria]

Thank you, Gary. But it is a good reminder anyway.

Best personal regards,

Andy

[Tab]

Dave, that's not what I am saying at all.

Just as playing with the original backing track colours the sound, then so does the playing.

If a piece of equipment is being demonstrated to show how close to the original it can get then it deserves an accurate reproduction.

Gary's attention to detail in the playing enhances the TVS. I'm sure that the only difference the non afficianodos noticed in Andy's road test was in the playing. There was nothing wrong with the tone and echo in your piece.

[dave robinson]

Dave, that's not what I am saying at all.

Just as playing with the original backing track colours the sound, then so does the playing.

If a piece of equipment is being demonstrated to show how close to the original it can get then it deserves an accurate reproduction.

Gary's attention to detail in the playing enhances the TVS. I'm sure that the only difference the non afficianodos noticed in Andy's road test was in the playing. There was nothing wrong with the tone and echo in your piece.

OK Tab thanks for clearing that up, but you need to understand that it wasn't an attempt to clone every nuance of Hank's playing style, it was to demonstrate that the sound and tone of the eTap was in the ball park - nothing more. I need to stress that I don't want to turn this into a slanging match between myself and Paul & Spike, it is so easy to make it look that way on an internet forum without realising it's happening. I have the greatest respect for the TVS team and if we were sat talking about this rather than writing, it would be very different to how it seems here.
I do understand what you are saying about the way that the lead part is played, if i get some time I may just go over it all again - line by line, listening and copying, but it isn't something that I normally do. Out of curiosity I may do what you suggest when those strings have lost a bit of life.
Kind regards

[Tab]

Hi Dave

As far as I am concerned, there is nothing in this thread that resembles a slanging match.

An honest exchange of views and opinions is healthy even though parties may disagree strongly (not in this case)

You know, well, my views on censorship and I think that sometimes threads get locked down unnecessarily.

Letting of a bit of steam doesn't usually hurt anyone and, I'm sure that, whatever our views, we are grown up enough to go for a beer together at the end of the day (metaphorically speaking, of course)

Kind regards

[roger bayliss]

Finally managed to download and listen to the last sample Dave... Wow that is it best I have heard yet for Apache... and therefore proves the etap2HW without question. I did a/b it against the TVS Apache on their site and on this occassion this version wins for me. Not that Gary Taylors version is lacking in anyway but the sound is nearer on this soundfile to my ears. Piet must be happy if he has heard this.

To answer Alan McKillop's comments about this being an eTap thread and not a TVS3 thread, then why do people not have the right to defend the TVS3 when it is challenged by comments as quoted above.

If people want to compare the etap to the TVS3 then we are happy to compromise as Paul has done in a previous and now blocked thread.

If you guys want to keep it as an Etap thread then dont include us in your discussion and just compare the etap to The Shadows.
Do we not have the right to defend ourselves if you are suggesting to people that the Etap is better or equal to the TVS3?
We will not interfere in an Etap discussion unless we are challenged so please keep it strictly Etap.

My Perth site(home of the TVS) has a section on the Etap where people are promoting it and we are happy to see Piets product get some exposure as it is a great product for the price.
See here http://shadowsperth.proboards.com/index ... hread=4140

and the DIY section: http://shadowsperth.proboards.com/index ... 140&page=2


Cheers
Spike

OK Spike did not mean to undermine the TVS unit at all , but your version of Apache by GT was probably the best version to date and it seemed natural to me to reference it in the effort to justify the eTap2HW version produced by DR in this thread . I remain convinced of the eTap2HW capabilities and also the TVS3 both being top units albeit at different pricing levels and build. Perhaps the internet sometimes makes comments appear worse than they are intended but I do not mean to devalue the TVS in any way and recognise PR's work and dedication in achieving what he has. We all know though that neither unit out of the box will give the final sound as on the records and some other studio settings are altered to achieve the final result. I did make reference to Robby Janusaras version of Wonderful Land in a later comment which proves the point that the sound can be achieved by other means as well. Sorry to drag TVS into the thread though but I thought Paul had done that by producing the 4 bytes soundfiles comparing the two units with the original. In any case an opinion is held and a right to express with respect is perfectly reasonable as no intention to offend is intended. It is inevitable on a site like this that people will compare the equipment available as they do with the various EFTP units and The Atlantis etc.
Please do not take offence at other peoples valid opinion as none was intended !

[ecca]

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