Double Six Original Vs. Remake questions

[Spaghettaboutit]

What's the consensus on the differences or even short comings of the rerelease of the Double Six. Are there different versions of the Double Six? (I mean other than the standard and the special all white with vibrato model).

I ask because I've been wanting to buy a 12 string and I've always wanted a Burns Bison 62 in the original red-orange paint job....though those are STUPID rare and expensive...so it can't hurt to divert my attention towards the Double Six.

How are the prices on the original vintage models? I know a few years back I saw an Ampeg Wild Dog go for under 1k (American).

Also does Burns still make guitars? It's a real pain in the ass to find a disruptor in the US (I live in California) who has any Burns in stock....maybe they just lost their American distribution arm? They just seem a whole lot less common than 5 years ago.


-Thanks, Ben

[neil2726]

There seems to be a fair amount of Burns Guitars in the USA advertised on E Bay!

[Billyboygretsch]

Have you looked on burnsguitars.com . Yes they still make guitars. I feel a little confused by your writings. You state you would like a Burns Bison but would settle for a double six. They are very different. If it is a 12 string you are after they make two versions and both are on the website. Hope this helps

[BrianD]

Ben,

Firstly, as already pointed out, the Bison and the Double Six are two very different guitars and cannot really be compared. I have used Burns guitars off and on for many years, my early ones being a Vibra Artist bought in '66, a Vibraslim in '73, and a Baldwin (Burns) Double 6 bought for just £45 from bankrupt stock back in 1974. Two years later I bought my first Marvin, a Baldwin version with the smooth scroll headstock made in 66/67, I think. Also in the mid 70s I went through three Burns Black Bisons, all three pick-up models, two dating from the early 60s with the rotary pick-up selector and one with the Rezotube trem unit, scroll neck and twin three way pick-up selectors. In recent years I have had Burns Marvins and a Double Six from the Burns Custom Shop late 90s era and Marvins and Double 6s from the current Chinese factory production era.

IMHO the current Burns Bison 62 and 64 models are not a patch on the originals from the 60s. The early Bisons had a character all of their own which, they lost when they switched to the "Marvin" styling in the mid 60s, and are real collectors items. They current ones are, in my opinion, just far eastern Strat copies with Bison styled bodies. I also have had the pleasure of playing at least three examples of the legendary original 4 pick-up Bisons. Very interesting instruments but not, in my opinion, useable as a gigging guitar.

In recent years I have owned a number of the recent "reproduction" Burns models but each has disappointed me and lacked something / personality compared to the originals and I have sold them all on. I really regret selling the Custom Shop "Legend" and Double Six, however, as they, again IMHO, did have that something.

Brian

[mgeek]

I just sold an original- great guitar but just too heavy for me (and I'm not wimpy)

Originals had lame bridges that were impossible to intonate, but i think the reissues have individual or at least shared saddles.

Having played both i'd say the ogs have way more character, and as youre in the states, should be easy enough to get a baldwin branded model for not too much.

[Spaghettaboutit]

There seems to be a fair amount of Burns Guitars in the USA advertised on E Bay!

I don't know what eBay you're looking at, but when I do a search for Burns Double Six I only get see 5 guitars, they used to be WAY more common.

[Spaghettaboutit]

Have you looked on burnsguitars.com . Yes they still make guitars. I feel a little confused by your writings. You state you would like a Burns Bison but would settle for a double six. They are very different. If it is a 12 string you are after they make two versions and both are on the website. Hope this helps

I've been on the website a ton of times, but it never seems to be updated....like it still looks the same as it did back in 2007.

Also if you look to see who in the US is a distributor they only have 1 listed, and that one company, Saga Musical Instruments, if you check their website only has ONE Burns guitar model listed, so unless they are slowing (stopping production), their presence in the US is about dead.

I'm by no means settling for a Double Six; it's just that the Burns Bison was what originally got me into the brand. Way back when the Double Six Apache was offered as a special edition white (cream?) paint job and that's what I was referencing in my original post. Also I know they've made a 12-string Bison, but it's not the model of Bison I'd want anyway.

[Spaghettaboutit]

Ben,

Firstly, as already pointed out, the Bison and the Double Six are two very different guitars and cannot really be compared. I have used Burns guitars off and on for many years, my early ones being a Vibra Artist bought in '66, a Vibraslim in '73, and a Baldwin (Burns) Double 6 bought for just £45 from bankrupt stock back in 1974. Two years later I bought my first Marvin, a Baldwin version with the smooth scroll headstock made in 66/67, I think. Also in the mid 70s I went through three Burns Black Bisons, all three pick-up models, two dating from the early 60s with the rotary pick-up selector and one with the Rezotube trem unit, scroll neck and twin three way pick-up selectors. In recent years I have had Burns Marvins and a Double Six from the Burns Custom Shop late 90s era and Marvins and Double 6s from the current Chinese factory production era.

IMHO the current Burns Bison 62 and 64 models are not a patch on the originals from the 60s. The early Bisons had a character all of their own which, they lost when they switched to the "Marvin" styling in the mid 60s, and are real collectors items. They current ones are, in my opinion, just far eastern Strat copies with Bison styled bodies. I also have had the pleasure of playing at least three examples of the legendary original 4 pick-up Bisons. Very interesting instruments but not, in my opinion, useable as a gigging guitar.

In recent years I have owned a number of the recent "reproduction" Burns models but each has disappointed me and lacked something / personality compared to the originals and I have sold them all on. I really regret selling the Custom Shop "Legend" and Double Six, however, as they, again IMHO, did have that something.

Brian

When it comes to Bisons it's batwing headstock or GTFO, I've also got huge OCD about needing to have a matching painted headstock. Didn't the original Bisons have a curved upper horn, and by that I mean they were shaped towards or away from the body of the player. And I think this was missing in the 62 Bison re-make. I also don't like the aesthetics of the 62's vibrato system, though I'd imagine with it's modern technology it's a better system than the older one...OH and the red 62's have the exact same color as a Gibson SG (clear cherry red), while the original Bison were red-orange, right?

What magic did the newer Double Six lack? If it's a pickup issue couldn't custom pickups just be ordered for the guitar? Ultimately in this post, I wanted to know a price comparison of the new v old and also tune/playability.

I just sold an original- great guitar but just too heavy for me (and I'm not wimpy)

Originals had lame bridges that were impossible to intonate, but i think the reissues have individual or at least shared saddles.

Having played both i'd say the ogs have way more character, and as youre in the states, should be easy enough to get a baldwin branded model for not too much.

Ya old guitars often really suck at 2 things: 1. staying in tune; 2. getting proper intonation. The technology really has improved.

[Billyboygretsch]

Check out the following books if you are interested in Burns Guitars. The Burns Book by Paul Day out of publication but are often on eBay. Pearls and Crazy Diamonds readily available. Both excellent and informative. burns-guitars.nl is also a very interesting site with lots of pics from Alfons fantastic collection . The first Bisons were four pick up and Black or Sunburst. The three pick ups were black and orange. I am not aware of an original Burns Bison 12 string although there are some which have been put together on the Internet.
You state there are only 4 or 5 on eBay at any one time ! How many do you want?
You should expect to pay £4-500 for a club double six. You probably won't find a secondhand Apache 12 string so should expect to pay around £1300 for a new one.

[neil2726]

I thought I was being helpful - 5 or 6 for sale of any particular model is good by anyone's standard! At least you have a choice!