Lack of Viewers Response

[Beebs]

Something that Dave Robinson mentioned (under the thread 'Arapaho' )about the viability of the site in terms of Sound Files:

"I can't understand why there are no other comments on this thread. Bob has produced a great piece here which is in the ball park of what we are about, it's something different and a worthy contender for a place on any Shadows album.
I sometimes have to wonder if this site is viable any longer. It 's certainly not what it was when we started out. "


I have been thinking about this comment for a while and I certainly share Dave's concerns. I notice one of my current submissions is getting to around 75 viewings and so far zero feedback/critique has been offered by those 75 people. This is getting far too common. What then, is a reason for anyone to make the very time consuming effort of recording and/or videoing when all that can be hoped for is 'all take' and 'no give'.
So with that in mind, I think I would like to try the following:

Any further submissions that I make to the Sound Files will be on the basis of a description of the song/video and if you are interested
send me a PM (using the private message of the site) and I'll gladly send the link to you, all I ask is feedback to do so. Others might like to join me in this idea to see how effective it is. Any constructive comments on this suggested are welcome guys, because I don't think it's in anyone's interest
to continue along the lines of 'The operation was a success but the patient died' . Rgds Beebs

[Iain Purdon]

I understand your frustration, Bob, but the site is here for people to use in whatever way they wish. Creating music files is one of those, for sure, as is listening to them. But there are many other reasons for folk being here. We are getting new members every day so I think the patient is alive!

Having said that, guitar instrumentals in general had their peak over 50 years ago and the Shadows longevity has to be due to their pride of place in the genre. But they did their final tour 10 years ago; even the reprise with Cliff was some 5 years ago now.

The people keeping it alive are here!! We may be getting older and less active but Shadowmusic is still part of our lives. That's good.

As to your files, Bob, not posting them means your non-commenting listeners will no longer hear them. That seems a bit of a shame. What do you really want of those who listen now?

[UlrichS]

Hi Bob,

I fully understand your feelings about the discrepance between viewers and responders. I had this too regarding some of my postings.

However, when I watched the user statistic at the bottom of the board index page (12 at this moment) I noticed that for most of the time half of the users are guests (now 6), which are not able to post any comment. From the registered users one cannot count the 'bot' search engines (3 now, but sometimes 5), which leaves - at this moment - 3 out of 12 users being able to post.
When any of these users who are unable to post visit a thread they are counted as viewers. Additionally every visit of a thread counts, even if the same user is visiting this thread for the empteenth time - and I don't know how often the search engines visit each thread again and again.
For me I made the conclusion that this viewers statistic is not very reliable. To get a better information I have, for example, posted my Shadows concert lists as downloadable files, where I get counted the clicks on the downloads links, but this seems not to apply for the links to the external music files. So I have no idea how to get more reliable figures for the music files.

I hope this is of some help for you despite the frustrating point.

A last word, I have never posted a comment to any of the music files. I don't play any instrument and I would not dare to give any comment mainly because I think myself not qualified to do so. I would only be able to say I like it or I dont - and what would be such a comment worth if I am not able to specify why I am saying so.

Best wishes and enjoy making - Shadows - music.

Ulrich

PS. Please consider that I am no native speaker in case I have use wrong or misunderstandable word.

[Beebs]

Thanks Iain.
Ulrich- a very constructive reply to my suggestion, maybe therein lies a lot of the reason for no replies, i.e. lots of guests only.
Thank you for that, it's appreciated. Bob

[Zaanse Shadow]

Hi Bob,

I support the view of you , one takes a lott of troublle to make a soundfile, let alone a Videofile with a lott more work, and the response is useal in my case 1 responce.
Much to few.

I can,t make out Bob what you are meanning by the following sentence "Any further submissions that I make to the Sound Files will be on the basis of a description of the song/video and if you are interested". Can you clear that a bit for me, please??

Regards

Fred

[Beebs]

Hi Fred,

Thanks for the response and your point of view. What I meant was (and I'm only suggesting this, I have no idea how effective it might be) that we might want to start a new thread which does not include the link, and IF it sounded interesting to people they could send a quick personal message to have it sent to them. The only request would be that the people reply with their thoughts about it to you. Surely they can find that courtesy. As it is now, we are kind of in a facebook situation. People who submit threads NEED feedback. Is there any disagreement about that?
Personally I probably get far more feedback than most, particularly on the Perth site. So I'm not suggesting what I am suggesting out of frustration, but more so out of disappointment.
In theory, people could also be far more honest about the thread to you because they are on a personal message rather than an open debate.

Let me emphasize the core of my thoughts here again - People who submit threads NEED feedback.
Just to be clear, the Shadows sites around the world are wonderful sites, they don't run by themselves but by people who sacrifice their own time and energy to make it happen. My submission here is solely
about feedback concerns on sound files for all those who submit them, not on the sites in general. What has been achieved by these sites is remarkable. I recently was having a look online for how many Beatles clubs there are in the UK. Did I miss something - I couldn't find any ! The most successful band in the world - zilch! Yet, by my reckoning there are about 33 clubs in the UK alone for the Shadows.
So Bravo for all those who stepped forward to do the work. Myself and Adrian Browne in Sydney started The Sydney Shadows Club all those years ago. It's still going strong.

My suggestion might not work, but as far as can tell we have never had a starting point for this debate. A flaw in my suggestion might be that maybe most viewers won't be bothered initially to send a PM
in which case the link could maybe be introduced a little later on as well. Can I suggest don't spend all energy on this suggestion - come up with yours as well, I certainly would like to hear them all.

Rgds Beebs

[JimN]

An interesting debate, and one in which I find it all but impossible to provide a reasoned comment.

I am well aware that lots of posters want feedback on their playing on soundfiles they have uploaded, but I, for one, rarely provide it. I limit my responses deliberately, more or less only to people I know, and on files where I know they are trying to do something a bit different.

I mean - what can I usefully say about another version of Apache or Dance On! played to the Taylor/Spencer backing tracks? Not a lot, I think you'll agree. And what does it matter what I think about it (either way)? Even less.

For that reason and others, I prefer to stick to written material and/or pictures, and mainly to history.

[Beebs]

Hi Paul,
Couldn't have put it better. There is something to be said about how many times you can still get something squeezed out of the classic songs. It may well have a bearing on why so many viewings go unresponded.
We had an expression in our club a few years ago about a hitherto unknown incurable disease called "Theme for young loversiitus". Beebs

[ecca]

There's a huge amount of sulking goes on here with the sound files.
" If you don't say anything nice about mine then I won't say anything nice about yours."
I've put quite a few self penned tunes here that have died the death.
You just have to accept it.
I agree about endless Apaches and Wonderful Lands that try to sound exactly like the record .
Boring.

[noelford]

If you post a sound-file you should make it clear what you have set out to do and ask for comments on that basis. I rarely record sound-files and even more rarely post one. If I do, it's because I feel I have produced something special and would like to share it. I'm not looking for criticism if I'm honest.

The UB Hank Bts have been a terrific asset to the solo player but should be used, if at all, with great discretion for a sound-file. Hearing yet another Wonderful Land with the identical backing to thousands of others is a huge turn-off for me, no matter how well the melody line is played.

I also seldom listen to sound-files here - just the ones that perk my interest. Even then I only comment if I can say something useful. And as far as asking members to PM and ask to listen? Optimistic, I'd say... knowing musicians, I'd say that would come second in the success ratings to herding cats!

No, going back to my opening sentence, the best way to get feedback is to ask for it and be specific about what aspect of the sound-file you are asking for comments about.

Just checked eBay for tin hats. There a a couple listed... should I bid?...

Noel