soundfiles using original shadows backings

[Iain Purdon]

Its Hank Marvin just in case I gave the impression it was me, regards gary

Phew, I'm glad I didn't say anything else!!

[Patrice]

For my own I think that That Sound it’s a so typical guitar sound that (and may be with a little experience ?!) you can recognize it « a cappela » without the need of the Shadows rhythm section.
The proof through the « sound » of the Savage Hank’s guitar posted by Garry…

I would add that if you take a look to the unfortunately too rare live Shadows videos we can find today on Youtube, like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzz64XMTcdA or the same day:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lpr49Q5EJ7E or FBI a little bit earlier
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ7DSivoB-I
no doubt that the philosophy of That Sound is naturally » present, in front of the Hank’s Vox amp... even if this « That Sound » is not exactly the same than the one we can hear on the record.

So, and I’m agree with Phil on this point what do you want to achieve ?

If you want to achieve the « philosophy » (which is for me : the master key and) which is the result of a Stratocaster, plugged in an SEP echo box and the in a Vox amp, you can imagine that the SEP (alone…) brings something « special ».
It’s the reason why (I think !!!) and because Phil owns now (congratulations !) and plays an original SEP, he knows exactly (today) the « voicing » of this type of machine and how much this machine is « important » for achieving (first) the master key.
So, when Phil records « Spring is… » with his SEP it’s an evidence that the color and the halo of reverb heard in his demo, recreate a large part of the « philosophy » of That Sound. And in his demo, we can recognize the «master key » just by listening the lead guitar…

Now, and without any pretension… I’m all the more agree with Phil since I modified for myself an PE 603 T Binson into a SEP/Vox Echo. (keeping the Binson magnetic drum + total SEP clone electronics).
To day I can say that : If you listen on time in your life, the « voicing » of this kind of SEP drum machine, you understand how Hank was lucky to use these echo boxes…
Besides, and because he used the both ! I think that Phil will confirm that the voicing found on a drum SEP, it’s different than the one found on a tape Echomatic Meazzi…
And nevertheless, the schematics are the same !


Regards
Patrice

[dave robinson]

For my own I think that That Sound it’s a so typical guitar sound that (and may be with a little experience ?!) you can recognize it « a cappela » without the need of the Shadows rhythm section.
The proof through the « sound » of the Savage Hank’s guitar posted by Garry…

I would add that if you take a look to the unfortunately too rare live Shadows videos we can find today on Youtube, like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzz64XMTcdA or the same day:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lpr49Q5EJ7E or FBI a little bit earlier
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ7DSivoB-I
no doubt that the philosophy of That Sound is naturally » present, in front of the Hank’s Vox amp... even if this « That Sound » is not exactly the same than the one we can hear on the record.

So, and I’m agree with Phil on this point what do you want to achieve ?

If you want to achieve the « philosophy » (which is for me : the master key and) which is the result of a Stratocaster, plugged in an SEP echo box and the in a Vox amp, you can imagine that the SEP (alone…) brings something « special ».
It’s the reason why (I think !!!) and because Phil owns now (congratulations !) and plays an original SEP, he knows exactly (today) the « voicing » of this type of machine and how much this machine is « important » for achieving (first) the master key.
So, when Phil records « Spring is… » with his SEP it’s an evidence that the color and the halo of reverb heard in his demo, recreate a large part of the « philosophy » of That Sound. And in his demo, we can recognize the «master key » just by listening the lead guitar…

Now, and without any pretension… I’m all the more agree with Phil since I modified for myself an PE 603 T Binson into a SEP/Vox Echo. (keeping the Binson magnetic drum + total SEP clone electronics).
To day I can say that : If you listen on time in your life, the « voicing » of this kind of SEP drum machine, you understand how Hank was lucky to use these echo boxes…
Besides, and because he used the both ! I think that Phil will confirm that the voicing found on a drum SEP, it’s different than the one found on a tape Echomatic Meazzi…
And nevertheless, the schematics are the same !


Regards
Patrice

So, to put it in a nutshell, the Meazzi drum based machine (SEP) adds a character to the tone of a Fender Stratocaster and Vox AC-15 or AC-30 amplifier that the tape based Meazzi doesn't, even though the circuits are very similar..
How fortunate we are that Charlie Hall and John Collins have captured this and made the Hall & Collins Signature echo with all of these attributes - job done.

[fenderplucker]

And isn't the ultimate test producing sound files that are almost indistinguishable from the original recordings made with the drum unit?

That is why I find the criticism of attempting to do so somewhat puzzling.

Paul.

[Gary Allen]

I was sort of hoping that someone would clean up the soundfile I posted and stick it on a UBhank bt to see what the right guitar sounds like on a non shads bt, that way the BT is eliminated from the equation, any volunteers ?? regards gary https://soundcloud.com/gary-allen-54/savage-hank-less-shads

[dave robinson]

I was sort of hoping that someone would clean up the soundfile I posted and stick it on a UBhank bt to see what the right guitar sounds like on a non shads bt, that way the BT is eliminated from the equation, any volunteers ?? regards gary https://soundcloud.com/gary-allen-54/savage-hank-less-shads

It probably wouldn't match up Gary because of the speed variation between the two tracks.

[JohanDeGreyze]

This is an interesting thread. How would Hank sound with the Savage when he played it with UBHank. Well that is not a too big challenge. Of course there are the timing differences, but with a bit of cutting and repositioning it was not too difficult.

The question here was why would some one want to use the original Shadows BT when there are so many good modern BT's. This question was extensively answered by Paul if I remember well. I agree with him.
Why the search for That Sound in the meaning of as close as possible. Just because we admire our big example and want to sound like him? In a lot of cases that will be sufficient. Even for a lot of people it is enough when they can reproduce the echo. But people like Paul and some others did an extensive research and know there is more than just an echo.

I belief that this search is not only for Hank's sound, but even more for the Shadows sound....and then only as it is on the records. Here is our first problem, many of us do not know that but some of these records have quite a story. For instance: there is not one and only version and there are versions with more than one mix. In the early days they switched left and right channels whenever they liked. Some songs were only issued in mono and much later in stereo, etc.
A nice example is FBI, until 2008 we had to do with bad stereo versions with a lot of (artificial) reverbs and that just because a tape was lost in the US. Thanks to a very persistent guy named Tony Hofmann it was found back. When you listen to the FBI version on The Early Years CD compilation and you compare it with the earlier versions you will immediately hear the difference.

But even if you only seek Hank's sound....the only way to do a good compare is to use the original environment, every other environment will distract you.

Have a listen to Hank, positioned in the UBHank BT. Unfortunately there is some drum residue of Tony Meehan still left in Hanks track.
Hank Marvin remixed in the UBHank BT

Kind regards
Jan

[Iain Purdon]

Have a listen to Hank, positioned in the UBHank BT. Hank Marvin remixed in the UBHank BT

That is a remarkable bit of computery, Jan! Well done. That must be a first?

[JohanDeGreyze]

Hi Iain,

I am not sure what you mean by that must be a first. It is the first time I tried to put Hank in someone else's BT and I am not planning to this more often. In this case I had to cut Hank's track into pieces to get it synchronized in a number of places after I lengthened the UBHank BT to 101%.
It is easier to play your own in the Shadows BT

Jan

[Gary Allen]

Hi Iain,

I am not sure what you mean by that must be a first. It is the first time I tried to put Hank in someone else's BT and I am not planning to this more often. In this case I had to cut Hank's track into pieces to get it synchronized in a number of places after I lengthened the UBHank BT to 101%.
It is easier to play your own in the Shadows BT

Jan

Hi Jan, thanks for doing this as I couldnt do it myself, Dave just posted Wonderful Land the same way, regards gary